{"id":197,"date":"2024-01-05T02:27:26","date_gmt":"2024-01-05T02:27:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/experimentalfrontiers.peachpuff-wolverine-566518.hostingersite.com\/?p=197"},"modified":"2024-01-05T02:27:26","modified_gmt":"2024-01-05T02:27:26","slug":"is-there-really-a-conflict-between-general-relativity-and-quantum-mechanics","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/2024\/01\/05\/is-there-really-a-conflict-between-general-relativity-and-quantum-mechanics\/","title":{"rendered":"Is there really a conflict between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?"},"content":{"rendered":"

The problem of combining General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a self-consistent theory is so difficult that it has defied the best minds in physics for 75 years. But this may not be necessary. We don\u2019t actually know that General Relativity is correct.<\/em><\/p>\n

\n
\n<\/div>\n

You have probably heard that the greatest problem confronting theoretical physics is that we have two incompatible theories. General Relativity is Einstein\u2019s theory of gravity, and it applies in the realm of astronomy, where it has been validated. Quantum Mechanics is a theory of atoms and subatomic particles, and it has been validated in the realm of the very small. The problem is that these two theories both work well, but they are incompatible. Einstein spent the last years of his life trying to combine them, and the world\u2019s smartest physicists have tried ever since without success.<\/p>\n

The natural thing to do would be to try experiments with quantum gravity, and use the results to home in on a theory. But no such experiments are feasible. The world\u2019s biggest particle accelerator can reach energies of trillions of electron volts (10^12 eV). Quantum gravity effects are predicted to be discernable at about 10^28 eV. We would need a particle accelerator that is a million billion times bigger than what we\u2019ve got. Of course, we have no idea how to construct such an accelerator, and if we built it using present technology, it would be the size of our galaxy.<\/p>\n

So, we\u2019re at a loss to reconcile these two great theories, but we\u2019re not at a loss to explain anything that we can actually observe. Our reason for believing that these two theories ought to be compatible comes from a faith in the Zeroth Law of Science, taken literally. GR and QM must be part of some self-consistent Grand Unified Theory because we have faith that the universe is built on mathematical foundations that are absolutely consistent, and that hold everywhere and forever.<\/p>\n

Fifty years ago at Harvard<\/h2>\n
\n
\n
<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

I was an undergraduate physics major\u00a0in 1969, in my senior year, taking courses that were over my head because I was ambitious. I was privileged and cursed to receive my introduction to quantum mechanics from Julian Schwinger, a Nobel laureate, and co-inventor of quantum field theory.\u00a0He left my head spinning three mornings a week.<\/p>\n

At the time, there were three classic tests of GR.<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. First, light from a star bends as it passes by the sun. In fact, it bends twice as much as if you just used a na\u00efve model of light as a particle (photon). Of course, you normally can\u2019t photograph a star that\u2019s right next to the sun, but during an eclipse, the sky becomes dark enough that stars right next to the sun become visible. In 1919, Arthur Edington traveled to West Africa explicitly to be in the path of a total eclipse, where he could take a photograph that tested Einstein\u2019s new General Theory of Relativity. The result vindicated Einstein, and the world applauded.<\/li>\n
  2. Second, the orbits of all planets are not exactly circular. According to Newtonian gravity, the orbit should be an ellipse, fixed in space. But with Einstein\u2019s corrections, the ellipse itself rotates so that the point of the ellipse moves a little further around the sun with each pass through the orbit.\u00a0 Mercury moves through the orbit in 88 days, but the orbit takes 23,000 years to complete a rotation around the sun. This is called \u201cprecession of the perihelion\u201d, and Einstein\u2019s prediction for the rate of precession is thought to be only part of the story. The precession is also driven in the same direction by the sun\u2019s shape, which is slightly oblate, not exactly spherical. It\u2019s far the most complicated calculation of the three, but results are said to vindicate Einstein.\n
    \n
    \n
    \"\"<\/p>\n
    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n
  3. Third is a gravitational redshift. Light that is rising out of a gravitational field loses energy and becomes redder as a result. If you shine a laser straight up from the first floor of the Physics Dept building at Harvard and intercept the light on the fourth floor with an instrument very sensitive to wavelength, you will find that the wavelength is very slightly longer (the color is very slightly redder) on the 4th floor than it was on the 1st floor. This experiment won a Nobel prize for my my Freshman physics professor,\u00a0Robert Pound<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    All the physics students in Dr Schwinger\u2019s class knew of these three tests. They\u2019re legendary. Imagine our amazement when Dr Schwinger spent three lectures calculating predictions for these three experiments from his own quantum theory of the graviton.<\/p>\n

    \n

    All three quantum computations agreed with Einstein\u2019s prediction from General Relativity.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

    What could this mean? Where\u2019s the conflict between QM and GR? Where\u2019s the problem that the best minds in physics have been obsessing over for the last 75 years?<\/p>\n

    Answer<\/strong><\/em>: For situations that are \u201cclose to\u201d Newtonian, GR and QM give the same answer.<\/p>\n

    Gravity is so weak that the only measurements that we can make are far less precise than measurements in chemistry or electromagnetism or nuclear physics. In most everyday and astronomical applications, the predictions of GR and Newtonian gravity are so close that we can\u2019t tell them apart. And even in the case of these three classic \u201ctests of general relativity\u201d, the difference between GR and Newtonian is tiny.\u00a0In such cases, GR predicts the same size departure from Newtonian as QM, so in practice the QM theory is perfectly adequate, and we don\u2019t really need GR.<\/p>\n

    It\u2019s only in the vicinity of a black hole or a neutron star that the difference between GR and Newtonian physics becomes sizable. We certainly do see neutron stars and black holes in the sky, but we can\u2019t use them to verify the GR predictions because we don\u2019t know precisely what we are looking at. We don\u2019t have an independent way to measure the mass of the NS or BH. So, in practice, what astronomers do is to assume that GR is correct and calculate backwards from their observations to make inferences about the BH or the NS.<\/p>\n

    A calculation trick well-known to physicists<\/h2>\n
    \n
    \n
    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

    There\u2019s a technique from physics, as old as Newton, by which you can frequently solve a difficult problem approximately. It\u2019s called \u2018perturbation theory.\u2019<\/p>\n

      \n
    1. Find a simple version of the same problem<\/li>\n
    2. Solve the simple version<\/li>\n
    3. Solve an equation for how much the answer changes when you move away from the simple problem in the direction of the difficult problem<\/li>\n
    4. Determine by how much your parameters differ from the simple version and use #3 to move along a straight line away from the simple answer by the appropriate amount.<\/li>\n
    5. If you want a better answer you can repeat the process in #3 and analyze the correction to your correction. This is like moving away from the simple solution along a parabola instead of a straight line.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      In the case of Newtonian gravity and Einstein\u2019s GR, the Newtonian answer is easy to calculate, and the GR calculation is usually very difficult \u2014 way beyond computation for general cases with odd geometries. The Newtonian answer is the one you would get if you were very far away from a gravitating star or planet.<\/p>\n

      How big is the difference between the (simple) Newtonian answer and the (hard to calculate) GR answer? The answer is that it is proportional to the ratio of the radius of a hypothetical black hole to the radius at which you\u2019re working.<\/p>\n

      For example, think about light passing by the sun for Eddington\u2019s 1919 test of GR. If the sun were a black hole, it would have a radius of about 3 Km. The sun\u2019s actual radius, where the starlight passes by the sun during an eclipse, is 700,000 Km. This tells you that the answer from Newtonian gravity and the answer from GR differ by about 3:700,000 or one part in 200,000.<\/p>\n

      The punch line, the point that I am aiming for, is that all three of the observed confirmations of Einstein\u2019s General Relativity are like this. The differences from Newtonian gravity are very tiny, and it takes special circumstances and delicate measurements to distinguish the relativistic correction to Newtonian gravity.<\/p>\n

      \n

      Crucially: the standard formula from quantum field theory
      \nof gravitons gives the same answer as GR in these cases.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

      So all the fuss about needing a way to reconcile quantum field theory with GR is just theoretical. There is no conflict in practice for any quantities that we are able to observe or measure.<\/p>\n

      What about other, more recent applications of GR?<\/h2>\n
      \n
      \n
      <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

      Certainly there have been other applications of GR since I went to school in the 1960s.\u00a0Gravitational waves<\/a>\u00a0have been observed, but we don\u2019t know where they came from, so can\u2019t use them to distinguish different theories of gravity.<\/p>\n

      GR is used to make cosmological calculations, for example the age of our universe and the evolution of the universe since the Big Bang. But these calculations\u00a0assume<\/strong><\/em>\u00a0that GR is true. They are not a test of\u00a0whether<\/strong><\/em>\u00a0GR is true.<\/p>\n

      Hawking radiation<\/a>\u00a0is a result of GR in the quantum realm, but once again, calculations of Hawking radiation are rooted in theory. Hawking radiation has never been observed in practice.<\/p>\n

      Gravitational lensing is another GR effect which is used to interpret observations in the sky. When we see a distant galaxy behind a nearby galaxy, sometimes the image is fractured and we see multiple copies of the rear galaxy on opposite sides of the galaxy in front. Or the image of the rear galaxy can be spread out to appear as a ring around the front galaxy.<\/p>\n

      \n
      \n
      \"Gravitational<\/p>\n
      <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

      But since we don\u2019t know the mass or position of the close galaxy, no quantitative conclusions can be drawn from gravitational lens observations.<\/p>\n

      The most stringent test by far is the Global Positioning System, GPS, that we use when we\u2019re driving, and that everyone from pilots to backpackers counts on as well. The GPS system works by comparing the time that it takes a radio signal to reach you from several different satellites. Each satellite is broadcasting the exact time, accurate to a billionth of a second, and the GPS chip in your cell phone picks up three or more time readings that differ from one another very slightly because of the time that it takes the signal to reach you from each of them. It is from these differences that the chip calculates how far you are from each of the satellites, and from this can calculate where you are on the earth\u2019s surface.<\/p>\n

      The clocks on these satellites run slightly faster than our clocks on earth because the earth\u2019s gravitational field is weaker up there. The difference is very tiny, but large enough that it has to be factored into the calculation in order for the chip to render your position accurately.<\/p>\n

      This is a GR correction to Newtonian gravity, and it is the best indication that we have that GR actually works \u2014 better than the Edington eclipse measurement or the Pound-Rebka experiment or the precession of Mercury. But still, the GR correction is very small, and so it remains in the regime where quantum field theory and GR give the same answer.<\/p>\n

      Conclusion: As far as we know, quantum field theory of gravitons gives the right answer for everything about gravity that we can actually measure. We\u2019ve tried like the devil to reconcile GR with QFT, without success so far. But it may be that we don\u2019t need to reconcile them. It may be that QFT is all we need.<\/p>\n

      \n
      \n<\/div>\n

      Physicists love GR because it is built on an elegant mathematical foundation. Simple ideas generate immensely complex equations, and those equations seem to work. This is a physicist\u2019s idea of heaven.<\/p>\n

      Einstein was interviewed after Eddington verified his General Relativity in 1919. Reportedly, when asked what his reaction would have been if Eddington\u2019s measurements had not supported his predictions, Einstein replied:<\/p>\n

      \u201cTo tell you the truth, I would have been sorry for the dear Lord\u2014the theory is correct.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

      Einstein\u2019s General Relativity is the most beautiful theory that anyone has ever come up with, but that doesn\u2019t oblige Nature to live by Einstein\u2019s rules.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

      The problem of combining General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a self-consistent theory is so difficult that it has defied the best minds in physics for 75 years. But this may not be necessary. We don\u2019t actually know that General Relativity is correct. You have probably heard that the greatest problem confronting theoretical physics is … Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":65,"featured_media":199,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-197","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","generate-columns","tablet-grid-50","mobile-grid-100","grid-parent","grid-50"],"yoast_head":"\nIs there really a conflict between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics? - Experimental Frontiers, with Josh Mitteldorf<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/2024\/01\/05\/is-there-really-a-conflict-between-general-relativity-and-quantum-mechanics\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Is there really a conflict between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The problem of combining General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a self-consistent theory is so difficult that it has defied the best minds in physics for 75 years. 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Much to the surprise of evolutionary biologists, genetic experiments indicate that aging has been selected as an adaptation for its own sake. This poses a conundrum: the impact of aging on individual fitness is wholly negative, so aging must be regarded as a kind of evolutionary altruism. Unlike other forms of evolutionary altruism, aging offers benefits to the community that are weak, and not well focussed on near kin of the altruist. 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But this may not be necessary. We don\u2019t actually know that General Relativity is correct. You have probably heard that the greatest problem confronting theoretical physics is ... 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The surprising fact that our bodies are genetically programmed to age and to die offers an enormous opportunity for medical intervention. It may be that therapies to slow the progress of aging need not repair or regenerate anything, but only need to interfere with an existing program of self-destruction. Mitteldorf has taught a weekly yoga class for thirty years. He is an advocate for vigorous self care, including exercise, meditation and caloric restriction. After earning a PhD in astrophysicist, Mitteldorf moved to evolutionary biology as a primary field in 1996. He has taught at Harvard, Berkeley, Bryn Mawr, LaSalle and Temple University. He is presently affiliated with MIT as a visiting scholar. In private life, Mitteldorf is an advocate for election integrity as well as public health. He is an avid amateur musician, playing piano in chamber groups, French horn in community orchestras. His two daughters are among the first children adopted from China in the mid-1980s. Much to the surprise of evolutionary biologists, genetic experiments indicate that aging has been selected as an adaptation for its own sake. This poses a conundrum: the impact of aging on individual fitness is wholly negative, so aging must be regarded as a kind of evolutionary altruism. Unlike other forms of evolutionary altruism, aging offers benefits to the community that are weak, and not well focussed on near kin of the altruist. This makes the mechanism challenging to understand and to model. more at http:\/\/mathforum.org\/~josh","sameAs":["http:\/\/AgingAdvice.org"],"url":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/author\/joshmitteldorf\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/7\/2024\/01\/grav-lens.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/65"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=197"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/199"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=197"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=197"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/experimentalfrontiers\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=197"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}