{"id":447,"date":"2015-12-22T14:34:23","date_gmt":"2015-12-22T14:34:23","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/joshmitteldorf.peachpuff-wolverine-566518.hostingersite.com\/?p=447"},"modified":"2015-12-22T18:20:38","modified_gmt":"2015-12-22T18:20:38","slug":"we-know-nothing-about-longevity-drug-interactions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/joshmitteldorf\/2015\/12\/22\/we-know-nothing-about-longevity-drug-interactions\/","title":{"rendered":"We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><i>Years ago, I worked for an energy conservation priest whose motto was, \u201canything worth doing is worth doing poorly.\u201d \u00a0We were training unemployed young people to install fuel-efficient furnaces in the homes of people who couldn\u2019t afford heat. \u00a0My boss\u2019s point was that the new furnaces were so much more efficient than the old that even if they were installed sloppily they would save enough fuel to turn a profit. \u00a0<\/i><\/p>\n<p>If you focus on the big picture and get it right, the details don\u2019t matter so much.<\/p>\n<p><em>In tests with mice, a dozen or so different treatments have been found to lead to modest life extension. \u00a0The most urgent need at present is to begin studying how these treatments work in combination. \u00a0But there are too many combinations, and tests with mice are expensive. \u00a0That\u2019s why it makes sense to do a quick-and-dirty job testing all combinations at once.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><small>(This is a research proposal, the germ of an academic publication that I have been working on in recent months, and plan to submit to a journal and to the NIA next year. \u00a0I am experimenting with the idea of publishing it first as a blog.)<\/small><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>I take about a dozen different pills for longevity. \u00a0There is some evidence behind each of them, but what we really don\u2019t know is how they interact. \u00a0It would be nice to think that their benefits simply add, so that if one pill produces a 10% average increase in life span, then 10 pills increase life span 100%.<\/p>\n<p>Fat chance.<\/p>\n<p>Some of them are ineffectual, of course. \u00a0But for the ones that offer a benefit, most of the benefits are probably redundant. \u00a0(When different treatments work via the same pathway, we can\u2019t expect that two together work any better than either one of them separately.) \u00a0A few may mutually interfere. \u00a0But there also may be a few magic combinations that synergize positively. \u00a0 If\u00a0they work via pathways that are substantially independent, we might hope that the life extension from the two together might be\u00a0equal or even\u00a0greater than the sum of the benefits separately.<\/p>\n<p>Most of the life extension drugs that we have target a single pathway: they work through the insulin metabolism. \u00a0The remainder work to suppress inflammation, or re-energize mitochondria, or lengthen telomeres, or reduce TOR signaling.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Tests in Mice and Rats<\/b><\/p>\n<p>There are many ways to extend life span in worms and even in flies. \u00a0Some of these have also been tested in rodents, and\u00a0they don\u2019t pass muster. \u00a0I have argued that we should concentrate on mammals. \u00a0Even though they are much slower and more expensive, longevity studies in mammals are a far better guide to what might work in humans. \u00a0When a drug is found that extends life span in mice, there is a good chance it will also work for people (though percentage increase of our 80-year life spans is likely to be smaller than the corresponding percentage in the 2-year life span of a mouse).<\/p>\n<p>Caloric restriction and exercise work consistently to increase average life span in mice. \u00a0Several genetic modifications are known to work, too. \u00a0The drug and supplement treatments for which there is best evidence include:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/10.1111\/acel.12194\/full\">Rapamycin<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pubmed\/18631321\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aspirin<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nature.com\/ncomms\/2013\/130730\/ncomms3192\/full\/ncomms3192.html?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureRevEndo\">Metformin<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/tpx.sagepub.com\/content\/31\/6\/589.short\">Melatonin<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>The many drugs that show promise but need further testing include<\/p>\n<ul>\n<ul>\n<li>Deprenyl<\/li>\n<li>ALK5 inhibitor<\/li>\n<li>Epitalon\/Epithalamin<\/li>\n<li>MitoQ\/SkQ<\/li>\n<li>Beta Lapachone (Pao d\u2019Arco)<\/li>\n<li>Spermidine<\/li>\n<li>Berberine<\/li>\n<li>Dinh lang (Policias fruticosum)<\/li>\n<li>Pterostilbene<\/li>\n<li>Gynostemma pentaphyllum (jiao gulan)<\/li>\n<li>N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC)<\/li>\n<li>Ashwagandha<\/li>\n<li>Turmeric\/curcumin<\/li>\n<li>C60<\/li>\n<li>Oxytocin (not oral)<\/li>\n<li>J147<\/li>\n<li>NR and NAD precursors<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/ul>\n<p>(Most of these were discussed briefly in a <a href=\"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/joshmitteldorf\/2015\/09\/15\/untested-treatments-for-longevity-and-how-to-test-them\/\" target=\"_blank\">column I posted in September<\/a>, and in other past columns.)<\/p>\n<p>Almost no work has been done with combinations of longevity treatments. \u00a0In 2013, Steve Spindler\u2019s lab published a <a href=\"http:\/\/link.springer.com\/article\/10.1007\/s11357-013-9609-9#\/page-1\">study<\/a> based on eight different commercial formulas of vitamins and supplements. \u00a0Their data were beautiful&#8211;and the survival curves for each of the eight fell exactly along the survival curve of the control group. \u00a0I have heard that the NIA\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nia.nih.gov\/research\/dab\/interventions-testing-program-itp\" target=\"_blank\">Interventions Testing Program<\/a> (ITP) has tested rapamycin in combination with metformin, with successful results (to be published next year).<\/p>\n<p>In a rational world, some of the billions of dollars that go into \u201cme too\u201d drug development and chemotherapy trials by Big Pharma would be diverted to test all of the above compounds, alone and in combination. \u00a0But in the branch of the multiverse where you and I live, this will not happen in 2016. \u00a0Hence \u201cquick and dirty\u201d (= cheap) alternatives look attractive.<\/p>\n<p><b>Proposal<\/b><\/p>\n<p>The plan is to screen for combinations of drugs that offer dramatic life extension in mice, using the minimum number of mice to test the maximum number of combinations. \u00a0Standard practice is to use 30-80 mice for each test in order to get a clean survival curve. \u00a0The innovation I am offering is to use just a few mice for each combination of treatments so that more combinations can be tested, albeit less precisely. \u00a0How many mice do we really need to be reasonably sure of not missing an outstanding combination of treatments?<\/p>\n<p>I have been modeling the situation with computer-generated data, testing different statistical methods to see which works best, and how many mice are needed in order to be reasonably certain of not missing a great combination. \u00a0My definition of a great combination is that it extends life span in excess of 50%. \u00a0The test I propose will not be capable of distinguishing \u201cwhich is better\u201d among the rank-and-file of many treatments and combinations. \u00a0However, there will be enough statistical power to identify the really hot performers, which are of most interest to us.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Specifically, I have modeled experiments based on 15 different treatments. \u00a0In the most practical and successful of the methods, I combine all different triples among 15 treatments (there are 455 of them, from a well-known statistics formula Combin(15,3)). \u00a0I\u2019ve assigned 3 mice to each triplet of combinations for a total of 1365 mice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I use statistics to tease apart the effects of different treatments and different combinations. \u00a0Analysis is based on multivariate regression, but since MVR works best with just 2 or 3 variables at a time, I have been experimenting with the details of an analysis program that looks at 1 to 3 variables at a time, then does a smart search for \u201cnearby\u201d criteria that might do a bit better.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>The Model<\/b><\/p>\n<p>I generate sample data for 1365 mice, based on each mouse having a randomly life span drawn from a bell-shaped curve. \u00a0The center of the bell-shaped curve depends on what treatments the mouse is getting. \u00a0(This is the \u201cright answer\u201d that the analysis is trying to find.) \u00a0The width of the bell-shaped curve is between 20 and 25% of the average, because this is the scatter that the better mouse laboratories find in their life span data.<\/p>\n<p>To generate the means, I assume that each treatment offers some random amount of life extension, also drawn from a bell-shaped curve. \u00a0I assume that the treatments interact in pairs and that the interactions are mostly destructive, but some of the treatment pairs interact synergistically.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">For example, if a mouse is receiving treatments A, B and C, then I assume its mean predicted life span is the sum of A and B and C separately plus the three interactions (A,B), (B,C) and (A,C). \u00a0(To simplify, I have assumed there is no separate term for a purely three-way interaction of (A,B,C).) \u00a0\u00a0This is the mean life span for that one mouse, and that mouse\u00a0is assigned a life span that is a random number centered on that mean.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Since we are most interested in combinations that yield large benefit, I have adjusted the parameters so there is always at least one triple combination that (on average) has benefit of &gt;50% life span extension.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Preliminary results<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<ul>\n<ul>\n<li>About 40% of the time, I hit the nail on the head and identify the best triple and the best pair.<\/li>\n<li>About 85% of the time, the best triple is among the top 3 generated by my analysis<\/li>\n<li>About 95% of the time, the best triple is among the top 6 generated by my analysis<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/ul>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Tentative conclusion<\/b><\/p>\n<p>I think this looks promising. \u00a0I am working with Edouard Debonneuil, who will check my calculations and contribute some of his own. \u00a0Edouard has more experience than I have both in the practical business of managing a lab experiment and in the practical business of finding funding and sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>I believe that using about 1400 mice in an experiment lasting about 3 years, we should be able to evaluate all combinations of 15 separate life extension treatments, and narrow the field to 6 candidate triples that show offer life extension in excess of 50%, and thus show promise for further testing.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>&#8230;and in the Real World<\/b><\/p>\n<p>The program I have outlined could be undertaken for less than the cost of testing the 15 separate treatments using traditional methodology, and I think what we would learn from the combinations protocol could be a great deal more useful. \u00a0The total cost might be $1 to $3 million, depending mostly on where the work is done.<\/p>\n<p>The biggest risk\u00a0is that the high-benefit\u00a0\u201cmagical\u201d synergistic combinations that this program is designed to look for simply don\u2019t exist.\u00a0 If they <em><strong>do<\/strong><\/em> exist and can be found, the public health impact is likely to be enormous.<\/p>\n<p>But in today\u2019s economy,\u00a0who will fund this work?<\/p>\n<p>National Institute for Aging in Baltimore has the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nia.nih.gov\/research\/dab\/interventions-testing-program-itp\">Interventions Testing Program<\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (ITP), <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nia.nih.gov\/about\/budget\/2015\/fy-2016-justification-budget-request\/fy-2016-program-descriptions-and\">funded at $4.7 million<\/a>. \u00a0Because they have high overhead and because they fund elite institutions with American salaries and because they repeat each experiment in triplicate, they can\u00a0test only 1 to 2 compounds a year. \u00a0There is no activity from pharmaceutical companies, except for the few\u00a0compounds that can be patented. \u00a0Some private foundations and crowd-funding groups have stepped forward to try to fill the void. \u00a0The <a href=\"http:\/\/glennfoundation.org\/\">Glenn Foundation<\/a> has cut back. \u00a0The <a href=\"http:\/\/sens.org\">SENS Foundation<\/a> is spread pretty thin. \u00a0I\u2019ve recently connected with the <a href=\"http:\/\/longevityalliance.org\/?q=major-mouse-testing-program\">Major Mouse Testing Program<\/a><\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (MMTP) of the <a href=\"http:\/\/longevityalliance.org\">International Longevity Alliance<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Years ago, I worked for an energy conservation priest whose motto was, \u201canything worth doing is worth doing poorly.\u201d \u00a0We were training unemployed young people to install fuel-efficient furnaces in the homes of people who couldn\u2019t afford heat. \u00a0My boss\u2019s point was that the new furnaces were so much more efficient than the old that &#8230; <a title=\"We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions\" class=\"read-more\" href=\"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/joshmitteldorf\/2015\/12\/22\/we-know-nothing-about-longevity-drug-interactions\/\" aria-label=\"Read more about We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions\">Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":65,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-447","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.4 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions - Josh Mitteldorf<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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The surprising fact that our bodies are genetically programmed to age and to die offers an enormous opportunity for medical intervention. It may be that therapies to slow the progress of aging need not repair or regenerate anything, but only need to interfere with an existing program of self-destruction. Mitteldorf has taught a weekly yoga class for thirty years. He is an advocate for vigorous self care, including exercise, meditation and caloric restriction. After earning a PhD in astrophysicist, Mitteldorf moved to evolutionary biology as a primary field in 1996. He has taught at Harvard, Berkeley, Bryn Mawr, LaSalle and Temple University. He is presently affiliated with MIT as a visiting scholar. In private life, Mitteldorf is an advocate for election integrity as well as public health. He is an avid amateur musician, playing piano in chamber groups, French horn in community orchestras. His two daughters are among the first children adopted from China in the mid-1980s. Much to the surprise of evolutionary biologists, genetic experiments indicate that aging has been selected as an adaptation for its own sake. This poses a conundrum: the impact of aging on individual fitness is wholly negative, so aging must be regarded as a kind of evolutionary altruism. Unlike other forms of evolutionary altruism, aging offers benefits to the community that are weak, and not well focussed on near kin of the altruist. This makes the mechanism challenging to understand and to model. more at http:\\\/\\\/mathforum.org\\\/~josh\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\\\/\\\/AgingAdvice.org\"],\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/scienceblog.com\\\/joshmitteldorf\\\/author\\\/joshmitteldorf\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions - Josh Mitteldorf","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/scienceblog.com\/joshmitteldorf\/2015\/12\/22\/we-know-nothing-about-longevity-drug-interactions\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"We Know Nothing about Longevity Drug Interactions","og_description":"Years ago, I worked for an energy conservation priest whose motto was, \u201canything worth doing is worth doing poorly.\u201d \u00a0We were training unemployed young people to install fuel-efficient furnaces in the homes of people who couldn\u2019t afford heat. \u00a0My boss\u2019s point was that the new furnaces were so much more efficient than the old that ... 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The surprising fact that our bodies are genetically programmed to age and to die offers an enormous opportunity for medical intervention. It may be that therapies to slow the progress of aging need not repair or regenerate anything, but only need to interfere with an existing program of self-destruction. Mitteldorf has taught a weekly yoga class for thirty years. He is an advocate for vigorous self care, including exercise, meditation and caloric restriction. After earning a PhD in astrophysicist, Mitteldorf moved to evolutionary biology as a primary field in 1996. He has taught at Harvard, Berkeley, Bryn Mawr, LaSalle and Temple University. He is presently affiliated with MIT as a visiting scholar. In private life, Mitteldorf is an advocate for election integrity as well as public health. He is an avid amateur musician, playing piano in chamber groups, French horn in community orchestras. His two daughters are among the first children adopted from China in the mid-1980s. Much to the surprise of evolutionary biologists, genetic experiments indicate that aging has been selected as an adaptation for its own sake. This poses a conundrum: the impact of aging on individual fitness is wholly negative, so aging must be regarded as a kind of evolutionary altruism. Unlike other forms of evolutionary altruism, aging offers benefits to the community that are weak, and not well focussed on near kin of the altruist. 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