Papps Noble Gas engine – a ZPE theory

Sun, 27 Mar 2011 07:04:36 -0700

"The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine"  by Eugene F.
Mallove and an
April 2 article by Sterling D. Allan, with Hank Mills on the current
status titled Noble Gas Engine Ready for Production Investment are both similar
to the ZPE reaction that I am proposing.
The papp engine utilized a combustion chamber but not combustion to power his
engine.His engine instead generates plasma during the combustion phase to drive
the piston back up and cool the gases. there is no exhaust or fuel consumed -
the gas mixture is hermetically sealed in the chambers and oscillates between
expanded and contracted statesthrough an exotic configuration of Casimir
supression and gas law where ZPE repeatedly disassociates gas molecules to
 form plasma and heat the compressed gas.

I had previously assumed that noble gases would ONLY act as insulators helping to isolate
conductive/catalytic pockets of gas geometrym inside a combustion chamber similar
to the way Haisch and Moddel’s prototype has insulating layers between the active Casimir/catalytic layers to force the migrating gases to translate through a wide range of vacuum energy density (what Mills calls hydrino states but
others refer to as “fractional or relativistic orbital states) – Haisch and Moddel concentrated on the Lamb pinch with unheated noble gas while I suggest their environment could be utilized to force catalytic disassociation of diatomic gases like hydrogen. My premise being that any molecular gas opposes the translation to different vacuum energy densities while atomic gas translates freely creating an asymmetrical path. This concept would go unnoticed and unexploited on the macro scale since such changes only occur on a large scale as the result of a gravitational gradient where energy density increases as you travel deeper into a gravity well. At the nano scale however you have a break in this isotropy due to suppression induced by Casimir geometry. It is my position that change in this Casimir geometry is responsible for catalytic action. Unlike the increased energy density due to a gravity well we see decreased energy density due to suppression and it occurs abruptly at the plates/ walls of a Casimir cavity. These walls can take the form of a compressed meniscus in a liquid medium and should have a gaseous equivalent when different gases of different bonding affinities are rapidly mixed in a COMBUSTION chamber. After reading the article above it is clear there was no combustion occurring in the Papp engine as there was no exhaust. I humbly suggest this was an endless ZPE reaction that catalytically disassociated noble gas compounds – Wikipedia does list a limited number of chemical compounds that noble gases can form so it could act as both monatomic insulator and reactant compound. Once disassociated the atomic gases translate freely to the current vacuum energy density and are then free to reform their chemical compounds at the local energy density and release energy as they reform compounds and fall to the lower energy state. The catalytic disassociation replenishes the atomic energy state each time courtesy of ZPE. The heat released by this process would be self limiting since it pushes the piston back up to both cool the plasma and release the pressure causing these bubble like pockets of Casimir geometry. I think the spark mechanism may have been more to keep the mechanical timing and crank direction under control or you would get frequent reversals and possible explosions and so you would want to run it just below threshold and use the spark to delay the reaction past top dead center – I think a multiple cylinder engine would have been much safer.RegardsFran

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:44 Robin wrote 

Don't forget that there is likely to be a fair bit of free Hydrogen in a

normal IC engine running on gasoline, which after all is a "Hydro"-carbon.

So if H is anywhere near a reasonable catalyst, then we are likely already

seeing Hydrino energy in normal combustion engines.  

also Note that several noble gasses (He, Ar, Ne, perhaps Xe) also act
as Mills catalysts.
reply to Robin

Yes hydrino combustion probably is occurring inside a normal ICE to a
limited degree
but I am still convinced that oxygen is the bane of this reaction.
Combustion is a one
way reaction that removes the hydrogen. If the plasma can be oxygen starved
the fractional/ hydrino
states can Continue to expand over a wider range. I think a diesel like
heater in the ICE could
bring a noncombustible mix of hydrogen and other gases up close to the
threshold of a runaway ZPE reaction and then the piston stroke would act
like the PWM in the Rossi device to compress the plasma over the threshold
in one direction then reverses to expand and cool the plasma back under the
threshold. My posit of an endless ashless reaction is based on a super
catalytic disassociation where nano geometry pockets of catalyst gas oppose
and disassociate molecular hydrogen or hydrinos - I don't think the
fractional states would be as acute as in a solid skeletal cat or nano
powders but there is no danger of damaging the geometry since they are
constantly reforming in a gas medium similar to bubbles in the liquid medium
of bubble fusion. IMHO the dihydrinos would disassociate/reform multiple
times giving off heat every time they reform to heat the gas and push the
piston back up.


RE: [Vo]:Papp engine

Jones Beene Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:10:16 -0700
From: Fran Roarty 

[snip]“The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine”
by Eugene F. Mallove
is a similar ZPE reaction to the one I am proposing.[/snip]
Since you mention this, Fran, let me add another thought - in which the
role of xenon oxide should be mentioned along with the Casimir repulsive
force. Gene’s fine article was a classic, yet it did not revive interest
in this engine among top level researchers - other than the four
different groups of people who had been associated with Papp, and who
had seen the engine working. Millions were spent by them but with no
reliable proof that the effect has been replicated. No theoretician
seems to have been able to find any conceivable way that it
could have worked.

All of the experts were probably hindered by one primary expectation.
 Since it was based on a converted piston engine, it had to be a heat
engine. Probably wrong! If today’s speculation is correct, then Papp’s
crazy design is not and never was a heat-engine, and in fact he may
have inadvertently found that ZPE can operate best as a heat sink.
Admittedly several other explanations for Papp have seemed partly
accurate in past analyses, but they assume that hydrogen was present,
 and there is no indication of that. Oxygen would be easier to imagine
as a contaminant, if it were not intentionally added. It is possible
that today’s proposed mechanism can operate best when physical
nano-cavities are present, but a gas plasma is also functional - since
so called “Casimir cooling” occurs in a medium via a Casimir repulsive
force, operating on curved surfaces where an inert molecule
like xenon might qualify as the active sphere for the cooling effect. 

We know for sure that xenon was one of Papp’s active gases, and that
xenon is known to have both chemical and nuclear metastability. I am
assuming, as Mallove did (and as the record shows), that Papp’s engine
 was demonstrated successfully on several occasions. I think we can
even identify the molecule that caused the Feynman-instigated explosion
 at the infamous demo – the one that cost Caltech a handsome sum and
cost one bystander his life… did we need to add a little extra drama
to this story?

Specifically, xenon tetroxide is a chemical compound of xenon and
oxygen: XeO4. It is remarkable for being a stable compound below −36 °C;
 but above that temperature it becomes violently explosive. This
combination of properties is what you want for use as a ZPE or ZPED
“cold pump” since you can possibly get anomalous shock waves by
capitalizing on the “cold side”, and at low effective
temperature (due to Boyles law). You can call it “reusable TNT” but it is
another version of the “entropic explosion” (shock wave without heat)
which has been referred to here before. It would be an ideal way to
 “pump” ZPE.[email protected]/msg15977.html

How to cycle between temperature extremes then becomes the overriding issue
with a piston engine. Fortunately every piston engine is also a vacuum pump in
disguise. You may need extra cooling of the cylinder head to keep it at ambient
or below and the engine will run cold naturally. There is a partial vacuum fill
of gases, and a high compression ratio to invoked the heat-pump effect and then
Joule-Thomson takes care of the rest. At bottom dead center of the stroke you
have a cold plasma from a shock wave which has dissipated without a heat

The electron configuration of xenon in its metastable chemical state consists
of tightly bound core electrons with a missing electron in the 5P shell, and a
loosely bound valence electron in the 6S shell. Thus it will lase under proper
conditions. It is tempting to attempt to connect orbital photon pumping
(lasing) with ZPE pumping – and in a few elements this could happen, but I can
find no authoritative source for that proposition.

Additionally it can be noted that the “xenon excimer laser” typically uses a
combination of a noble gases with a reactive oxidant like fluorine. Under the
appropriate conditions, a “pseudo-molecule” called an “excimer” is created,
which can only exist in an energized state and produces coherent light in the
ultraviolet range on collapse. Normally this is conservative and lossy but this
is only a metaphor for an inverse process. In the Papp engine, even if xenon
does not oxidize all the way to the tetroxide, it could easily form an excimer
when rapidly cooled from a previous shock wave.

The employment of oxygen instead of fluorine can make something happen under
extremely cold transitory conditions, as with Joule-Thomson expansion
(throttling) in a cold plasma. A design which provides mechanical torque can
depend on a shock wave in the absence of temperature differential, due to this
little known property (little known, unless you design automotive air-bags or
read vortex). This mechanism is known as the “entropic explosion” – or heatless
shock wave. Essentially, this converts “coldness” into torque, and then into
usable energy, in a proper design. :-)

With a high compression ratio, it could be possible to cycle a low pressure gas
fill between ambient and minus 36 °C, on every single revolution of the engine
- so long as an adiabatic process is avoided.  But by permitting Boyle’s Law to
operate using a mix of gases with one of them being helium, thermodynamic
expectations become altered, and so my suggestion today is that this is the way
Papp avoided the adiabatic process. 

These thermodynamics, if this speculation is accurate, would have been
completely unknown to Papp, and maybe to Feynman, but the engine worked (at
least it worked on occasion when curious onlookers from Caltech were not
tempted to unplug the temperature control unit). Aside from that, relevant
details are still unknown and that probably goes back to the fact that Papp,
like Andrea Rossi, could have gotten lucky in the lab and not had a clue about
what they had found, due to paranoia at having the invention stolen. 

BTW I’m referring to the strange “inversion temperature” of helium once again
in the above scenario, since of all exploitable physical properties, it seems
to be the one which can be tied directly to the zero point field.

Think about an ‘alternative universe’ in which the great Feynman really was
great (instead of above-average) and in which there was no OPEC, no Gulf Wars
and no trillion dollar deficits, due to the discovery 40 years ago - of a brand
new energy source. IOW a real genius was present at this demo who was able to
override natural skepticism and figure this one out from the start.

Ironically, the rights to the Papp engine could probably have been purchased by
Caltech for less than had to pay for the fatality.