There is great promise in 2020 that we might be able to make our bodies young without having to explicitly repair molecular damage, but just by changing the signaling environment.
Do we need to add signals that say “young” or remove signals that say “old”?
Does infusion of biochemical signals from young blood plasma rejuvenate tissues of an old animal? Or are there dissolved signal proteins in old animals that must be removed?
For a decade, Irena and Mike Conboy have been telling us removal of bad actors is more important. But just last month, Harold Katcher reported spectacular success by infusing a plasma fraction while taking away nothing. Then, last week, the Conboys came back with a demonstration of the rejuvenating power of simple dilution. [Link to their new paper]
Dilution procedure
They simply replaced half of the blood plasma in 2-year-old mice with a saline solution containing 5% albumin. What is albumin? Blood plasma is chock full of dissolved proteins, about 10% by weight. About half of these are termed albumin. Albumin is the generic portion. It doesn’t change through the lifetime. It doesn’t carry information by itself. But albumin transports nutrients and minerals through the body.
The Conboys took care to show that albumin has no rejuvenation power on its own, and had nothing to do with their experimental results. Rather, they had to replenish albumin in diluting blood, because the animals would be sickened if half their albumin were removed. Replacing the albumin in a transfusion is akin to replacing the volume of water or maintaining the salinity.
In preparation for this experiment, the Conboys have invested years in miniaturizing the technology for blood transfusions, so that mice can be subjected to the same procedures that are commonplace in human hospitals.
Dose-Response
The Conboy lab replaced 50% of mouse blood plasma. They got spectacular results with a single treatment, based on a lucky guess. They have not yet experimented with 30% or 70%. They don’t know yet how long the treatment will last and how long it needs to be repeated.
Evidence of rejuvenation
As with previous papers from the Conboy lab, the group focused on repair and stem cell activity as evidence of a more youthful state. Three separate tissue samples were taken from liver, muscle, and brain.
“Muscle repair was improved, fibrosis was attenuated, and inhibition of myogenic proliferation was switched to enhancement; liver adiposity and fibrosis were reduced; and hippocampal neurogenesis was increased.”
- They measured nerve growth factors in the brain, and detected a more robust response, typical of young mice
- They lacerated muscles and showed repair rates typical of much younger animals
- They examined microscope slides of liver tissue, and showed that it is less fatty and striated than is typical of older mice
Figure 2. Rejuvenation of adult myogenesis, and albumin-independent effects of TPE. One day after the NBE, muscle was injured at two sites per TA by cardiotoxin; 5 days later muscle was isolated and cryosectioned at 10 µm. (A) Representative H&E and eMyHC IF images of the injury site. Scale bar = 50 µm. (B) Regenerative index: the number of centrally nucleated myofibers per total nuclei. OO vs.ONBE p = 0.000001, YY vs ONBE non-significant p = 0.4014; Fibrotic index: white devoid of myofibers areas. OO vs ONBE p = 0.000048, YY vs YNBE non-significant p = 0.1712. Minimal Feret diameter of eMyHC+ myofibers is normalized to the mean of YY [9]. OO vs. ONBE p=3.04346E-05, YY vs. YNBE p=0.009. Data-points are TA injury sites of 4-5 YNBE and 5 ONBE animals. Young and Old levels (detailed in Supplementary Figure 1) are dashed lines. Representative images for YY versus YNBE cohorts are shown in Supplementary Figure 6. (C) Automated microscopy quantification of HSA dose response, as fold difference in BrdU+ cells from OPTI-MEM alone (0 HSA). There was no enhancement of myogenic proliferation at 1-16% HSA. N=6. (D) Meta-Express quantification of BrdU+ cells by automated high throughput microscopy for myoblasts cultured with 4% PreTPE versus PostTPE serum and (E) for these cells cultured with 4% of each: PreTPE serum + HSA or PostTPE serum + HSA. Significant increase in BrdU positive cells is detected in every subject 1, 2, 3, and 4 for TPE-treated serum (p=0.011, <0.0001, <0.0001, 0.0039, respectively), as well as for TPE-treated serum when 4%HSA is present (p<0.0001, <0.0001, <0.0001, =0.009 respectively). N=6. (F) Scatter plot with Means and SEM of all Pre-TPE, Post-TPE, +/- HSA cohorts shows significant improvement in proliferation in Pre TPE as compared to and Post TPE cohorts (p*=0.033), as well as Pre+HSA and Post+HSA cohorts (p*=0.0116). In contrast, no significant change was observed when comparing Pre with Pre+HSA (p=0.744) or Post with Post+HSA (p=0.9733). N=4 subjects X 6 independent assays for each, at each condition. (G) Representative BrdU IF and Hoechst staining in sub-regions of one of the 9 sites that were captured by the automated microscopy. Blood serum from old individuals diminished myogenic cell proliferation with very few BrdU+ cells being visible (illustrated by one positive cell in Pre-TPE and arrowhead pointing to the corresponding nucleus); TPE abrogated this inhibition but HSA did not have a discernable effect.
What’s missing? They did not test any measures of physical or cognitive performance at the level of the organism.
- Evidence of behavioral changes (learning and memory, endurance, strength)
- Inflammatory markers
- Blood lipids
- Methylation clock (Horvath, UCLA) or proteomic clock (Lehallier, Stanford)
Some of this is planned for future research. Mike and Irina plan to submit tissue samples for analysis by the Horvath mouse methylation clock.
Clock?
I am a committed enthusiast for the methylation and proteomic clocks that are the best surrogates we have for aging. These technologies can tell us whether anti-aging interventions have been effective without having to wait for animals (or humans) to die before reporting results. But the Conboys still regard these technologies as unproven, and they bristle at the word “clock”. The closest they come is to catalog the entire proteome of treated mice, comparing it to untreated young and old mice.
Multi-dimensional t-SNE analyses and Heatmapping of these data revealed that the ONBE proteome became significantly different from OO and regained some similarities to the YY proteome. Supplementary Figure 4 confirms the statistical significance of this comparative proteomics through Power Analysis, and shows the YY vs. OO Heatmap, where the age-specific differences are less pronounced than those between OO vs. ONBE, again emphasizing the robust effect of NBE on the molecular composition of the systemic milieu.
Translation: As controls, they had mice that underwent plasma exchange with mice of similar age. YY were young, positive controls, and OO were old, negative controls. Treated mice were ONBE=”Old—Neutral Blood Exchange”. Rather than relying on “clock” algorithms that compute an age from the proteome, they compared the entire proteomes of test animals with those of old and young animals, and foud that they resembled the young animals more closely.
Aging and epigenetics
I was an early advocate of the theory that aging is driven primarily by changes in epigenetics. Other proponents include Johnson, Rando, and Horvath. This theory is now mainstream, though its acceptance is far from universal. (The main reason people have difficulty with the idea is the question, “why would the body evolve to destroy itself?” I present a comprehensive answer in my popular book and my academic book.)
On the face of it, the new Conboy result is powerful evidence for the epigenetic theory. They have shown that there are proteins in the blood that actively retard growth and healing. Remove half theses proteins and the animals are able to grow youthful tissues and to heal better. The obvious conclusion is that, with age, there are signaling changes in the blood that weaken the animal and inhibit repair.
There are, however, other ways to interpret the changes. Aubrey de Grey has said (personal communication)
“When everything in the blood except the cells and the albumin is replaced by water, the body will definitely respond by synthesising and secreting everything that it detects a shortage of, whereas the bad stuff will not be so rapidly replaced, since by and large it was only there in the first place as a result of impaired excretion/degradation.”
The Conboys don’t embrace the programmed aging perspective, but neither is their understanding of what they see the same as Aubrey’s. The way Irina explained it to me is that the age of the biological of the body is simply a measure of how much damage has accumulated, but that cycles of epigenetics and catalysis are self-reinforcing.
“Epigenetic, mRNA, and protein are steps of one process, regulation of gene expression. And none of these steps are permanent they all actively and constantly respond to cell environment — tissue and systemic milieu…With aging there is a drift which is re-calibrated by a number of rejuvenation approaches…When an auto-inductive age-elevated ligand is diluted, it cannot activate its own receptor and induce its own mRNA, so ligand levels diminish to their younger states for prolonged time.”
The Conboys theorize that these harmful proteins are part of a positive feedback loop, in other words, a cycle that is self-sustaining
epigenetic state ⇒ gene expression ⇒ translation to circulating proteins ⇒ feedback that alters the epigenetic state
With age, the body has slipped into a dysfunctional, self-sustaining cycle, and with the shock of disruption, they are able to nudge it back into a more robust and youthful cycle, also self-sustaining.
Figure 6. Model of the dilution effect in resetting of circulatory proteome. System: A induces itself (A, red), and C (blue); A represses B (green), C represses A. A dilution of an age-elevated protein (A, at D1: initial dilution event), breaks the autoinduction and diminishes the levels of A (event 1, red arrow); the secondary target of A (B, at event 2 green arrow), then becomes de-repressed and elevated (B induces B is postulated); the attenuator of A (C, at event 3 blue arrow), has a time-delay (TD) of being diminished, as it is intracellular and was not immediately diluted, and some protein levels persist even after the lower induction of C by A. C decreases (no longer induced by A), and a re-boot of A results in the re-induction of C by A (event 4 blue arrow) leading to the secondary decrease of A signaling intensity/autoinduction, and a secondary upward wave of B (events 5 red arrow and 6 green arrow, respectively). alpha = 0.01, kc = 0.01, beta = 0.05, epsilon = 0.1, ka = 0.1. Protein removal rates from system: removalA = 0.01, removalB = 0.1, removalC = 0.01, Initial values: initialA = 1000, initialB = 400, initialC. = 700
For me, the surprising thing in Irina’s account is that there is no hysteresis in this system. The reprogramming responds to changes in the blood levels of signals within minutes. There is no homeostasis in such a system. I wonder how that can be. Life is all about homeostasis, and intuitively, we all imagine that negative feedback loops are more common than positive feedback loops. (Negative feedback loops lead to homeostasis; positive feedback loops lead to runaway, exponential change.)
Is there a clock somewhere? Is the brain special?
In the Conboy view, signals in the blood are emitted from all over the body, and not especially from the hypothalamus. If brain tissue responds in a seemingly exceptional way to proteins in the blood, it is because of selective passage of those proteins by the blood-brain barrier.
The authors remind us that in past parabiosis experiments (where blood is exchanged between old and young mice), the brain tissue of the young mice grew older but brains of the old mice didn’t get younger. This was an indication that brain aging is caused by affirmative action of “bad actors” in the plasma, and that these are able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier. This observation was part of the inspiration for the current experiments.
The corresponding procedure in humans is already FDA approved
Therapeutic Plasma Exchange (TPE) is a well-established medical procedure, and has already been performed on an experimental basis by co-author Dobri Kiprov. There is anecotal history of suggestive results, which I will write about in my next post.
Comparison with Katcher’s Elixir
This week’s announcement from the Conboys and last month’s preprint from Katcher/Horvath come from the same school of thought: that aging is coordinated through the body by signal molecules in the blood. Both demonstrated dramatic rejuvenation in rodents based on a short-term intervention, and both have plans for commercialization and human trials to begin ASAP.
So it is curious that in other ways, the programs of Katcher and Conboy are so different.
- While both approaches are rooted in differing compositions of blood plasma between young and old, the Conboys focus exclusively on removing species that are inhibiting youthful regeneration, while Katcher’s approach is to add back the proteins that formerly kept the animal young.
- The Conboys have fully disclosed all aspects of their experimental protocol, whereas the content of Katcher’s elixir remains a trade secret.
- Katcher is on the fringe of academic research, and the Conboys’ lab is at one of the premier academic institutions in the world.
- Katcher is a year further along, having experimented with different dosages and timings. Neither Katcher nor the Conboy lab has yet demonstrated life extension.
- The Conboys demonstrate rejuvenation with wound healing, tissue structure, and renewal of nerve growth. Katcher’s claim is based on physiology (especially inflammation), cognitive performance, and methylation clock algorithms.
- In fact, Katcher regards restoration of youthful methylation patterns as the best evidence he could offer for rejuvenation (I agree), while the Conboys are reserving judgment about the importance of methylation, and bristle at the language of a methylation “clock”.
- Katcher understands the effects of plasma transfusions in terms of a broad theory (which I support). Aging is an epigenetic program, governed and enforced by a “clock” that operates via a feedback loop between circulating proteins that govern gene expression and gene expression that generate those proteins. The Conboys recognize they are working this feedback loop (their Fig 6) but they resist the theory that it is the essential cause of aging.
My guess is that a combination of their two approaches will be necessary for full remediation of aging, and that a combination of their resources, credibility, theoretical foundations, and contacts would be a transformative event for medical science, for biotech industry, and for biological theory. It is my fervent hope that Katcher and the Conboys might work together.
Discussion
238 reader comments
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Good day, regarding the consistent use of melatonin, this very important study was published at the last conference of the Scientific Sessions of the American Heart Association 2025, https://newsroom.heart.org/news/long-term-use-of-melatonin-supplements-to-support-sleep-may-have-negative-health-effects.
"...A five-year study of medical records of more than 130,000 adults with insomnia who had used melatonin for at least a year revealed that they were more likely to be diagnosed with heart failure, require hospitalization for this condition, or die from any cause."
I don't believe this result for 3 reasons
1) It contradicts many past studies that find a life extension benefit for melatonin. There is a plausible mechanism in the role melatonin plays in mitochondrial chemistry. Melatonin declines with age as mortality increases.
2) The study design looks only at people who have PRESCRIPTIONS for melatonin. The great majority of people who take melatonin buy it over the counter, as is available OTC in all 50 states. The subset of people who get melatonin prescriptions from their doctor have an underlying pathology (perhaps persistent insomnia) -- that's why they saw the doctor who prescribed melatonin. I think the underlying pathology explains the increased morbidity risk, not the melatonin.
3) The pharma industry has become very devious in pursuit of profits. Not only do they use deceptive experimental design to demonstrate the efficacy of their own patented drugs. They also sponsor studies designed to discredit natural, cheaper alternatives. I've seen dubious studies that try to make vitamin D look bad -- even though vitamin D is one of the best ways to lower your cancer risk and increase your resistance to infections.
Oh and as far as Harold's elixir I am bettign his elixir is triggering the downstream effects of the "good hormones" that decline with age like melatonin dhea pregenolone progesterone.. While the Conboys removal of blood plasma probably are removiong the downstream effects of LH and FSH...that would be my guess
Thanks Jeff, Yes - it will be very interesting to see how all these different aging proceses being targeted interact, and at some point converge.
I just returned to the blog after a bit of a hiatus. Josh, I love the work. I think Jeff Bowles is on to something here, big time, with hormones - I also believe that the pretest probability is also such that this is by far the best hypothesis - the other things are downstream. The issue is that we don't quite know the fine line of risk/reward. I'm a big risk guy, and most people (look at this Covid BS) aren't, because they cannot fathom reward, only loss. I believe this paralyzes most humans, and only some of us are willing and capable (both) to maturely assess it, that's why so much fear is in the "common man." Back to the hormone issue, it just seems that there is a universal reality that tradeoffs exist. However, I presume that most people would love to feel like a 30-50 year old version of their self as they age from 50-70, even if they only lived until age 80 in the modern day. I think polling would call that a no brainer on the risk assessment side of things, and to be quite honest, it's probably possible or the case if you take testosterone and hgh at slight supraphysiologic doses after age 50. I am an MD and know much about it, but am investigating further as I have not yet reached these ages which I consider to be quite critical in applying the knowledge for a greater energy and youthful appearance. As such, I defer to the real experts who have experimented with performance enhancers, being a former athlete and lean/in shape person.
I was curious to see the relationship to melatonin that Bowles described being so impactful, and will look more into that.
As an aside, I also think there must be a tradeoff for constant bloodletting and/or fractionation, regardless of how reproducible the effects have been in spot surveys or experiments.
If you all had to guess, which methods do you think will prove the most efficacious? I'm looking for maintenance of youth and strength as being favored to longevity in the axis, but increasing both if possible. I just don't find being small and less vivacious (eunuchs? come on) to be a reasonable tradeoff for pure longevity --- who cares about longevity at that point, to be honest I wouldn't understand that type of thinking. There is far to great of a longevity idol doing on currently in western societies, as I see it.
Thanks,
P
HI Palamas
Send me an email to [email protected] and Ill send you my comprehnsive book abot aging and hormones (and evolution) for free .It got all good reviews it just has not been a popular book as it probably is over the heads of most...and it likely rubs most evoluton professors the wrong way...But it does retail all the hormones that change dramaitcally with age..some go up some go down.. many stay the same.
Hi, Jeff:
A long time ago I had asked you about my unexpected increase of Testosterone which I had attributed to various antiaging interventions. You gave me a pretty detailed and informative explanation.
At that time, I forgot to mention, that in a short time I lost all my leg hair (but no influence in scalp hair). This loss was permanent. I.e. there was no regrowth. My Testosterone levels continue to be very high for my age.
Can you think of any possible reasons for such hair loss? Could any hormone be implicated?
Thank You
Zisos:
Leg hair loss without head-hair loss effects about 35 percent of the older population both male and female.
A lot of things can cause this. Some factors are benign such wearing tight-legged pants or socks or tight gym leggings.
Other reasons, thyroid issues, pituitary issues, peripheral artery disease, folliculitis, high levels of stress, etc.
Please see a doctor for an examination and blood work, to put your mind at ease.
Thank you Heather
My blood tests are actually very good. Actually aging.ai predicts my age to be almost half of my real age. I googled a lot, but none of the causes suggested appeared to be the true cause. I suspect some hormonal problem.
WOW that is strange.....but one thing coems to mind....male body hair as well as balding and acne are driven by testosterone's evil twin DHT (Di hydro testosteorne) possibly yout T is so high because for some reason you are no longer converting any T to DHT this could also explain lack of leg hair...but dont fret DHT is generally a bad hormone....but low dht might also reduce your sex drive This is what happens to some people who take 5 alpha reductase inhibitors....which people use to regrow their hair...it works by preventing the conversion of T to DHT ...it grows their hair back but some people have sexual side effects of reduced libido...so if you can get a shot or some kind of supoplenmtn with 5 alpha reductase it might grow your leg hair back...this is just my educated guess...
Hi Jeff:
I thank you for your help.
In fact I was afraid that leg hair loss might be cause for concern. Instead, you suggest that it is likely that low levels of DHT (which is desirable), might be the cause. This is actually very useful information.
You should have your hormones checked. Excessive free testosterone for example could be caused by a thyroid dysfunction. This could also have accounted for your hair loss. Have you ever been diagnosed or does your family have a history of hyperthyroidism?
I think the impact of hormones are worth studying, but are not the solution to reversing or completely stopping aging. As an example, look at the case of the salmon whose sexual organs are removed or neutralized: They live longer than salmon that spawn, but they still die. They don’t live to be 50 years old either! As Josh and others have pointed out, there are multiple overlapping mechanisms that cause aging, and while hormones may trigger some “self-destruct programs”, there are others that also need to be dealt with in order to stop or reverse aging.
concerning the pacific Salmon, they live for 3 years then spawn and die. Castrate them and they live at least 7 years....That is more than double the life span....That's a pretty good start....I'd be happy with doubling my lifespan. I don't think they have studied what happens when you add back the good hormones that decline with age in the Salmon..so maybe the 7 year lifespan is just a starting point for hormonal life span extension in the pacific Salmon..Wow I was just looking up life span extension for Pacific Salmon by castration and I found this amazing study where they showed that castrating the Slamon prevented a huge rise in LH and FSH ...which are the same hormones that skyrocket in humans after age 50 (both male and female) here is the link go check it out!!>>>>
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51307610_Effects_of_gonadectomy_and_androgen_treatments_on_pituitary_and_plasma_levels_of_gonadotropins_in_mature_male_Atlantic_salmon_Salmo_salar_parr--positive_feedback_control_of_both_gonadotropins/figures?lo=1
Hi Jeff, That is a very interesting study! Preventing the huge rise in LH & FSH that occurs > 50 is clearly critical to prevent some of the damage caused by aging. I think you’ve mentioned that high-dose melatonin can help with this, correct? I am also curious if Harold’s Elixir will have any effect on LH/FSH levels.
HI there
Yes melatonin suppresses LH and FSH and if given at 75 mg/night will act as birth control for women. And melatonin has been shown to reverse menopause in women just going into it. The reproduictive hromones LH and FSH are also the death hormones..isn't that amazing?
Ron Davis at Stanford has found the blood plasma in ME/CFS patients to likely be causative. I wonder if the same replacement strategy would work for people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
As I am 72, rejuvenation is near critical, I developed ME/CFS in 1993 and from that point on I have been unable to work and can barely take care of myself. That is 27 years of waiting to start my life over again. Coming down with this disease was like going to bed with the Flu and waking up 90 years old.
Would repeated plasma donations be as effective as a single 50% plasma dilution ?
The plasma donations would be about 3 weeks apart and I think I would need 5 or 6 to be effective.
Hi Gabor,
"Differential expression of collagen with age for instance is a well defined phenomenon. Also ECM related changes might be thought of the continuation of the development program thus a prime candidate for programmed aging."
Perhaps Fibroblast Growth Factors might be used to increase Collagen? (see 1,2)
I believe Hyaluronic acid levels may also change with age.
(1)
Fibroblast Growth Factors: A Controlling Mechanism of Skin Aging
- In addition, the FGF has a relevant role in anti-aging therapy
because it is related to collagen and elastin synthesis activation
responsible for skin resistance and elasticity, characteristics
that are diminished with skin aging. Thus, the present article
aims to review several scientific studies that demonstrated the
cell signaling involved with the action of FGF on skin aging.
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/501145
(2)
Effect of FGF-2 on Collagen Tissue Regeneration by Human Vertebral Bone Marrow Stem Cells
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25122057/
Yes ECM seems to be a low hanging fruit in rejuvenation therapy. Most evidence points to the chromatin being the driver of aging but chromatin is very hard to influence pharmacologically. Chromatin is double enveloped by the cell membrane and the nucleus. However the ECM is a much easier target. Drugs just have to cross the endothelial membrane and have their effect on the ECM directly.
Differential expression of collagen with age for instance is a well defined phenomenon. Also ECM related changes might be thought of the continuation of the development program thus a prime candidate for programmed aging.
Wayne,
Your point was that the blood plasma does NOT(<-- correction) appear to be a matrix
The aging set-point idea may need at least 3 clocks, all syncing to each other.
An example:
The space shuttle used 3 different software programs to control it's flight.
All three were used to calculate each flight decision, a 2 out of 3 method was used to decide what it did. If a conflict occured between two, the third broke the tie.
I would guess the methylation aging clock is the one used in the cells realtime.
It is compaired to the ECM clock, and at least another clock source to allow for tie breaking.
A redundant clock system would explain why it has been so hard to reset the aging set-point to a younger age.
Wayne,
Your point was that the blood plasma does appear to be a matrix, and thus calling it ECM, makes no sense. I was just going from the wiki page on the response.
The ECM is thought of as a scaffolding on which the cells hang. Free flowing cells in the blood move around freely and have no need of a scaffolding. Your point is well taken.
Unlike other cells in the body the blood cells are not self-replicating. I am told they come from stem cell pools. The place to fix the blood is probably at their creation point by fixing the the stem pools.
Josh,
Has anyone proposed an ECM clock?
The Study “Restoration of Senescent Human Diploid Fibroblasts by Modulation of the Extracellular Matrix” had two results that seemed odd to me.
1) Old cells placed in young ECM were de-aged.
2) Young cells placed in old ECM retained their youthfulness.
This seems to point to at least 2 clocks, one in the cell and a second in the ECM.
These clocks seem to be syncing to the younger age, which is interesting.
You've convinced me, Gerald, that there is a difference in the ECM between young and old. I also think this can effect aging, even regeneration, of adjacent cells.
Given that, my limited understanding is that the ECM itself is not metabolically active and its components are produced by the cells it supports. Thus the root cause would go back to the cells themselves as the creators of the younger substances. I would guess that whole body transplantation of ECMs is not feasible, so the value in your research would be identification of the substances/composition of young vs. old ECM and then looking at their production by young vs. old cells.
I'm way out of my depth here, as I don't even know if there is a difference in old vs. young collagen, etc. Your continued enlightenment would be much appreciated.
An example of how the ECM is altered by a component of the human microbiome.
"Herpes Simplex Virus type-1 Infection Affects the Expression of Extracellular Matrix Components in Human Nucleus Pulposus Cells"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30339788/
"During 2015–2016, prevalence of herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) was 47.8%"
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db304.htm
Hi Lee,
Great post, we have a close friend that is battling this very thing.
From your posts it seems that it more common than I thought.
Hi Wayne,
Good to hear from you,
As I understand it, the ECM becomes damaged as we age, and
pits and cracks form, leading to holes.
If cancer cells get into these holes, they lose contact with the ECM
and it starts to grow all packed together. Then we have a problem.
Young ECM doesn't have these holes so the cancer is in contact
with healthy ECM and behaves like a normal cell.
So you are right in that we need to find a way to regenerate/repair the ECM to a
younger healthier state.
Good news for us is that a huge amount of research is being done
in the area of ECM to that end.
But an even better option may be:
"Akshay Atomic Bliss on June 26, 2020 at 2:19 am said:
Our therapy creates a young ECM"
I am excited to see the results from their upcoming trials.
My admittedly limited research has been unable to find even a hint as to the signaling mechanism used by young ECM. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
Are substances of ECM origin (not its surrounding plasma) passed through the cell membrane? I doubt this because they all appear to be very large molecules, but...
You (Gerald) say you have compiled a partial list of ECM signals. Would you give me an example?
Perhaps the ECM Is acting on certain surface receptors of the cell? If so, which ones?
Mina Bissell seems to indicate that the mechanism is physical, not chemical. If I remember correctly, she uses the word "form". In the study reversing senescent cells, could molding the larger and flatter senescent cells into a more supportive smaller sphere change the inner workings of the cell?
As you may note, my analysis assumes that the ECM does not, and cannot, create any of its own substances.
Help.
Wayne,
Thanks for asking.
"Growth factors" are used in the ECM signalling.
The "Growth factors" wiki page contains a list of growth factors (see 1 below)
The "FGF2" Growth factor looks of interest to me. (see studies 2-10 below)
"FGF2" appear to be involved in tissue regeneration.
BTW: FGF2 comes in several different sized molecules.
The smallest seems the best for our purposes.
From my reading the growth factors can be released from and reloaded into the ECM.
Protein folding/unfolding seems to be involved in the release and reloading process.
Again thanks for your question.
(1)
Growth factor(wiki page)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_factor
Studies follow:
(2)
The role of FGF2 in spinal cord trauma and regeneration research
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967528/
(3)
Effect of FGF-2 on Collagen Tissue Regeneration by Human Vertebral Bone Marrow Stem Cells
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25122057/
(4)
Periodontal Regeneration by FGF-2 (bFGF) in Primate Models
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11808765/
(5)
Regeneration of Bone Using Nanoplex Delivery of FGF-2 and BMP-2 Genes in Diaphyseal Long Bone Radial Defects in a Diabetic Rabbit Model
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28069556/
(6)
FGF2 Triggers Iris-Derived Lens Regeneration in Newt Eye
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15172683/
(7)
Recombinant human fibroblast growth factor-2 promotes nerve regeneration and functional recovery after mental nerve crush injury
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5436363/
(8)
The role of FGF-2 in smoke-induced emphysema and the therapeutic potential of recombinant FGF-2 in patients with COPD
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235987/
(9)
Age-Related Changes in FGF-2, Fibroblast Growth Factor Receptors and ß-Catenin Expression in Human Mesenchyme-Derived Progenitor Cells
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4861164/
(10)
Fibroblast Growth Factors: A Controlling Mechanism of Skin Aging
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/501145
>My admittedly limited research has been unable to find even a hint as to the >signaling mechanism used by young ECM. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
Growth Factors are stored and released in the ECM.
Protein folding and unfolding are involved .
The unfolding/folding of the protein in the ECM is the mechanical part used to
release/reload the growth factors.
>Are substances of ECM origin (not its surrounding plasma) passed through the >cell membrane? I doubt this because they all appear to be very large molecules, >but…
From my reading the receptors are on the surface of the cell.
>You (Gerald) say you have compiled a partial list of ECM signals.
>Would you give me an example?
Sure, the Growth factor wiki page contains a list of the growth factors used in ECM signalling. I have not validated the Wiki list is correct or complete in regard to the ECM.
>Perhaps the ECM Is acting on certain surface receptors of the cell?
>If so, which ones?
From what I've read they do use the surface receptors.
I don't recall which ones.
If what I read was specific.
>Mina Bissell seems to indicate that the mechanism is physical, not chemical.
>If I remember correctly, she uses the word “form”.
>In the study reversing senescent cells, could molding the larger
>and flatter senescent cells into a more supportive smaller
>sphere change the inner workings of the cell?
Form and function.
This is the matrix part of ECM.
The matrix is like the 2x4 structure that builders place on the foundation.
You can look at it and see thats its going to be a house.
Even without the walls, flooring or roof.
Each matrix is matched to a function or each function has its own matrix.
Looking at the matrix you know what it's function will be.
The location and angle of where the cells attach to the matrix is fixed.
So if a matrix has say 6 attachment point for cells, you need all 6 in place
for it to function properly. Each of the 6 cells may have a specific part to play.
That's why you can look at an arm and know it's an arm, or a eye is an eye.
Not sure about the cell shape.
> As you may note, my analysis assumes that the ECM does not,
> and cannot, create any of its own substances.
Wayne,
My proofreader is back from shopping! Hopefully fewer typos.
I don't know if you've had any luck.
If not, I find a straight-forward Google search of
nih (anti-aging term) (growth factor of your choice) seems to work.
Anti-aging related terms like regeneration , telomere, etc...
Try:
https://www.google.com/search?gbv=1&q=nih+regeneration+FGF&oq=&aqs=
Related to this particular blog, is the ECM removed or retained when whole blood is converted to plasma?
Hi Wayne,
Blood plasma is the ECM of blood (see 1)
Extracellular matrix (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
- blood plasma is the ECM of blood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracellular_matrix
Except blood plasma is composed of entirely different substances and is not, to my knowledge, a matrix. It seems to me that blood cells could only be rejuvenated by substances different than regular ECM or by a different mechanism. As i understand it, OKSM reprogramming works on blood cells, not just cells surrounded by elastin, etc., which would indicate to me that ECM is not essential. However, this does not mean that ECM doesn't offer some clues as to what a cell undergoing rejuvenation might be experiencing.
Great points.
I agree OKSM reprogramming turns back the clock.
Akshay's therapy should also work, and Harold said it should only need to be repeated every 2 years.
But your age set-point, for lack of a better word, pulls the cell forward again to your current age.
The goal would be to find a way to change the age set-point to a younger age and let our normal age control mechanisms do the work for us.
What I'm beginning to wonder is if there are several different kinds of clocks all syncing to each other, with at least one clock in the cell and at least one in the ECM.
We might need to set all the clocks at once to correct the age set-point.
Do you happen to know anything about the telomere length of the mice & rats used?
If lab mice tend to have significantly longer telomeres than humans, do you think that could be an issue with translation of the result? Is this also an issue with rats?
It would be interesting to try this in mice with artificially short telomeres, or with other mammals where telomeres play a larger role in aging.
Hi Oliver,
I don't know the telomere length of the mice in the study, it wasn't mentioned.
An odd fact about naked mole-rats is their telomeres lengthen throughout their lives.
I agree, short telomeres lead to damaged DNA and possible cancer cells.
Have you watched the TED talk by Mina Bissell yet? It completely changed my view of cancer.
https://www.ted.com/talks/mina_bissell_experiments_that_point_to_a_new_understanding_of_cancer?language=en#t-943087
In her talk she showed that cancer cells can be made to behave as normal healthy cells by placing them in contact with good healthy extra-cellular matrix.
The high-molecular-mass Hyaluronic acids that naked mole-rats have are like wifi-extenders for the cell's communications. This allows the damaged naked mole-rats cells that would behave like cancer to continue behaving normally.
Without the high-molecular-mass Hyaluronic acids the cells fell back into the cancer pattern of uncontrolled growth.
How this translates to us is that if we can repair our damaged ECM to a healthy ECM and keep all the cells with DNA damage in contact with healthy ECM, cancer could be as rare in us as it is in the naked mole-rat.
Also it you noticed my first post on "Restoration of Senescent Human Diploid Fibroblasts by Modulation of the Extracellular Matrix", the study took senescent cells from a senior donor and placed them in ECM from a young donor.
The senescent cells de-aged to roughly the age of the young donor.
The study showed that communication between the senescent cells and the young ECM caused the cells to de-age to close to the young donor's age.
What I am interested in, is looking into what the ECM signals were that triggered the age reversal in the old cells.
How might this be used to reduce the effects of aging?
Our therapy creates a young ECM
Hi Akshay,
Thank you for the update on your therapy.
Have you been able to resume your product development?
Everyone I know is tired of this virus and ready to resume their lives.
Best wishes to your team.
Again thanks for the update.
Gerald all your recent posts and links were awesome. You are absolutely on the right track. We are frustrated due to the enforced delay. Hoping to catch up by launching multiple trials simultaneously.
Great I’ll check these out — thanks!
Hi, Akshay
I have a question for you.
You mention that your therapy "creates a young ECM"
In wikipedia for ECM, there is this statement:
"In human fetuses, for example, the extracellular matrix works with stem cells to grow and regrow all parts of the human body, and fetuses can regrow anything that gets damaged in the womb. Scientists have long believed that the matrix stops functioning after full development."
So, my question is this:
Using your methodology, would it be possible to make the ECM very young, to the point that it is similar to fetus's ECM? If that were the case, then this method could possibly be used to re-grow parts of the body?
Or am I extrapolating too much?
Zisos it is something we have to find out. The ECM results are a validation of what Harold has been saying from a while and seen from our results that aging is systemic and not cellular and environment is the key.
To my understanding Gerald, the ECM is oftentimes the culprit in preventing rejuvenation. Hence inhibiting several signalling pathways that hold cells in rigid place such as Rho-kinase, tgf-B seem to have the power to set cells free to regenerate the tissue. Perhaps the ECM is a scaffold that becomes overly restrictive on cells with age. This might be related to the fact it is turned over less often with age. I realise this is not in agreement with your naked mole rat research, but HA is only one of several important ECM components like collagen and elastin, and in the mole rat case you can see how a strong ECM could restrict the migration of cancer cells (via contact inhibition controlling of cell size and shape), just as I have argued it also restricts rejuvenation. This is related to how 2D culture is overly rigid and restrictive compared to 3D models, which are closer to how things are in the body.
Just some ideas.
One other note
Translation is much better from rats to humans than from mice to humans; dogs would be better than both.
Yes--this demonstrates that cancer is a systemic disease. It's not caused by mutations in the cell nucleus, but by a metabolic environment.
There's an even better-known series of experiments that I associate with Jerry Shay. They swapped out DNA from a cancer cell and put it in a normal cell, and vice versa. The result was that putting the mutated DNA into a normal cell didn't turn the cell cancerous, but putting normal DNA into a cancer cell didn't rescue the cell from being cancerous.
Thanks to both you and Mark, you have some good points.
That the ECM has a way of controlling regeneration/cancer doesn't surpise me.
That 2d and 3d environments differ was a big part of what the Bissel talk was about. So I think I understand where you're coming from.
I can see how putting damaged DNA in a normal cell might not cause cancer.
But putting normal DNA in cancer cells and not seeing an improvement
is new to me. I'll have to keep that in mind.
Your comment:
"this demonstrates that cancer is a systemic disease. It’s not caused by mutations in the cell nucleus, but by a metabolic environment."
I'd like to know more about how this process works.
Do you have a blog on the metabolic environment perhaps? Or can you point me to a specific study or website?
Thanks again to both of you for the info!